Tula Outskirts: Timer Too Short.

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Moach
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:05 am

Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:28 pm

Tula Outskirts is one of my favorite maps, it has a near ideal layout for balance of attack and defense, plus many other things which make it awesome.

However, the timer on it is so short that, not only it can't be properly enjoyed, it tips the balance very heavily towards the defenders. It is widely regarded as a "do not attack" map.

The timeout issue is a problem because it is so clear that the battle could have gone much further considering the number of tickets left for both teams. It is exceedingly uncommon to have this map run down in favor of the defenders because of ticket count. With the server full of humans, the map is almost guaranteed to time out before the final point is even under contest.


Just now, a very representative run of it had objective D become open for attack, with both teams holding around 300+ tickets, yet the timer was already down to less than 7 minutes. There was no hope of reaching past D, let alone E and F.

Most runs of this map end up with similar results.


This is a very simple balance issue. The solution is just to increase the map time so that it allows 10 ~ 20 minutes more than at present. That way it would be possible for the battle to continue at least until teams get to less than 100 tickets each.
Last edited by Moach on Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rivimies
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 9:53 am

Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:34 pm

Hmm, not sure imho.

http://gerservers2.rivimies.fi/lb/MAP_D ... STALINGRAD

Attackers are still doing good.

Moach
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:05 am

Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:17 am

Indeed. But that statistic does not break down into how many players were online to account for those results.

When played against a half load of bots, this map can be often steamrolled quickly enough to make it an easy win for the attackers. Bots are insurmountably inept at defending, as we all know. Yet their lemming-like running about is slightly more effective on attack, as they can be quite accurate shots when they find enough wits to figure out how pulling the trigger works. Meanwhile, humans providing cover-fire can easily remove the enemy AI running like ants in the open while the lemmings advance to capture.

So I strongly suspect the attacker-biased statistic here is mainly due to how players are well aware of this phenomenon. And thus, they choose this map when attacking against a weaker team or when the server is less than full.


On more fiercely contested campaigns however, Tula is commonly regarded as a fool's errand when attacking. The speed of advance required to pull it off in time is much higher than on other similar maps.



Now, if only there was a way to quantify the specific server population conditions in which a match was won or lost. Or how many tickets and time were left at the end. That would give us some very clarifying statistics indeed, and would easily show how differently a map plays out with varying combinations of "unhistorically shrewd humans" and "bots who lack enough wits even to spell´IQ´"



For an even battle (>90% humans) however, this map still remains constrained by the too-short timer.

I have not seen it ever (or in at least a very long while) end with both teams running out of cannon fodder close together. It's usually either a swift steamroller action, or a timeout somewhere between D and E with tickets left on both sides.

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Paul.
Posts: 29
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Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:09 am

Good morning,

The statistics are only based on full maps. I am not completly sure but I think it takes at least 50 real players.

There are still some things we need to consider. If the map is as you say always decided on time and teams don't have to consider tickets we might need to adjust that. Giving the teams less tickets but more time could result in a more organized attack instead of just burning tickets to get to the last cap as soon as possible.

But I am not sure if this is the case, I didn't really experience this issue myself.

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